Posted by postman01 on January 2, 2008 at 3:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is the kind of nonsense that hurts everyone. There is NO ALTERNATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!

I honestly wonder if these people understand how absurd and BORING their behavior is. It is not written in stone that John's Island has to remain unchanged. The plain and simple fact is that this is a small pressure group that wants to minutely dictate to everyone else it's concept of how John's Island should be. The fact is that this kind of thing is determined by the cumulative decisions of landowners, the many people who CHOOSE to buy land and then build a house, the businesses that choose to locate there, etc., and the job of government is to accomodate and serve the citizenry in this manner. People having homes to live in, places to work, schools to go to, etc., is infinitely more imprtant than the absurd control-freak demands and DELUSIONAL NONSENSE of tiny little pressure groups and the egotistical, throwback wannabe tinhorns that comprise them.

The sad thing is that the delusional nonsense and the absurd attempt to demagogue the "environment" being engaged in necessitates steam-rolling these people and the fact is that people like me prefer not to do that. They are asking for it and I for one regret the necessity of getting this crowd out of the way of human progress.

Posted by Creeker01 on January 2, 2008 at 5:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Mmmm. OK.

I just think they are not seeing the big picture while attempting to cling to the 19th Century lifestyle. Things Change, and people have to change with them.

Posted by moonpie on January 2, 2008 at 6:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

postman01, your right! I actually was looking at a map yesterday and laughed outloud when I saw the 526 loop, er horse shoe! This is ridiculous, build the remaining part of the loop. I actually thought about moving to WA but traffic is a major concern. In the article it said "some think that finishing the loop it might aleviate traffic on some other roads" YOU THINK! Maybe HWY61, 17, 7, 171, ETC,ETC, Where help is needed!? Anywhere the 526 loop has been constructed HAS helped traffic and hasn't hurt the environment. Get over JI change IS coming. Legislators need to do the right thing with all the construction going on WA.

Posted by majorjohnson on January 2, 2008 at 7:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

These folks weren't concerned about the environment out there when they built their houses...it's only other people building houses that is considered runaway development and greed.

Posted by 843allday on January 2, 2008 at 7:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Can we fix the existing roads first?

Posted by Early on January 2, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Where exactly is the connector suppose to go through John's Island? P&C, a map would have been nice duh!

Posted by charlestonian on January 2, 2008 at 8:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

They would be better served to put there efforts into zoning changes on Johns Island that would limit the population growth, then to fight 526. Try getting on and off the island during rush hour, you can expect a long wait in a long line of idling cars. How is fixing local roads going to fix that, there are only two bridges on and off the island and they are only two lane. Building more roads or widening roads to the bridges isn't going to fix it. And where are the poor roads in the area, I haven't seen any poor pot holed roads that are in dire need of repair.

A Johns Island resident in support of 526...

Posted by postman01 on January 2, 2008 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Doug, you're right.There is a throwback element at the P&C. It is essentially xenophobic, backwards, and entrenched, even though its numbers are a TINY MINORITY. I'm from here, have been exposed to this nonsense all my life, and I know what I'm talking about.

It was not a coincidence but an expression of DESPERATION from people who have failed to adapt to a changed world. It's actually sad as it can be BUT the Internet means that controlling the agenda as they used to has escaped the grasp of the crowd I am talking about and we are all better off for it.

The amusing thing is the utter failure to learn of this crowd. This is why (here I go being controversial again) I question their intelligence. Every last thing that they insist will be a "disaster" never ever turns out to be one. A good example is the new Cooper River Bridge. The same MINDLESS CROWD insisted that it would be a "disaster", "ruin Charleston's skyline", etc. How many people, including THEM, have you heard say they want the old bridges back? The Intelligence Test is this: Why haven't they noticed that their predictions are INACCURATE?!!!!!! The reason is that they are not connecting the dots and realizing that if their old predictions were wrong, their new ones made from the same premises probably are too. This is a straight up egregious failure of logic, obviously.

Anyway, this is really what we are seeing here and it is a common human failing.

Unfortunately.

Posted by postman01 on January 2, 2008 at 9:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Bravo, Charlestonian!!!!!!!!! I'm a native too and it's nice to know that there are others FROM HERE who have a grip on this kind of thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Early on January 2, 2008 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

charlestonian, your right going both ways off the island. Main road to 17 is a freaking parking lot at 4:00 pm, most people don't know that.

Posted by mggoose2000 on January 2, 2008 at 9:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I wonder where Jones-Turansky lives?

Obviously, not on Johns or James Island.

Posted by icbmman on January 2, 2008 at 9:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Postman, excellent posts...I couldn't have said it any better! I'm a native currently living in Cola (not really my choice), and it is just amazing how for years these pressure groups (ESPECIALLY the damn CCL!) manipulated and hindered the growth of the city and its surroundings. I've said this many times: I-526 was designed almost 40 years ago!!! It should've been completely finished at least 10 years ago!! These idiotic groups and environmentalists have been a nuisance, and it is time their incompetancy and idiocy was exposed. Great example with the opposition to the new Cooper River Bridge...they still were able to degrade the bridge, however, by demanding dim lighting for bridge illumination.

If this loop was completed, I believe that WA residents will finally see this section of Chas becoming more popular again as a retail and commercial area. Traffic will be alleviated on the heavily burdened US 17 and SC 61 highways. As for Johns Island, I believe that residents there need to realize that as long as Chas remains as a place with a great quality of life, people will want to move there...and with S'ville, Mt. P, and Goose Creek filled, their island is going to be the next hotbed where people want to live.

Half-a$$ alternatives, which seem to be a staple in this state, are not going to help things in the future for the island. Finishing the I-526 loop is part of the long term solution of managing growth and traffic. These imbecilic groups need to realize that.

Posted by Native_Ink on January 2, 2008 at 10:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The other parts of I-526 really "improved" traffic, didn't they? Hah!

Posted by charlestonian on January 2, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

@ Native_Ink
I'd say the other parts of 526 improved traffic. Try shutting down 526 between North Charleston and West Ashley and see how the traffic is during rush hour. I predict a traffic jam on Rittenberg and 17 and 61 and people not getting home from work till 9pm.

Posted by My_50Cents_Worth on January 2, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Which ones of you actually live on Johns Island? Perhaps none. Johns Island is my home; I grew up there and most of my relatives are still there.

Steady development has taken place on Johns Island and that development has been embraced. Likewise, on Kiawah and Seabrook Islands the growth has not only been rapid, but exponential. If you lived there you would know that the argument of most Johns Islanders is that their loss (mostly of private property to make the project happen) is Kiawah and Seabrook Islands’ gain. There are ways in which I-526 can be routed to take those folks directly to their Island palaces, but wait, their communities are gated and thus it is not the best means because commoners are not allowed, unless they are employed there.

The island as a whole did not gain from the Betsy Kerrison Parkway, Kiawah and Seabrook Islanders did.

The same way that many of you rebuke and berate the residents of the IOP and the like, some Johns Islanders share the same sentiments about their Kiawah and Seabrook Island ‘neighbors.’ There are some who are sick of there being plenty for the few and few for the plenty.

Posted by longview on January 2, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The extension will mean one thing for John's island...more people. If the definition of "progress", as some have mentioned on this board, is development, then continuing 526 will simply bring more people. Think it will alieve traffic at rush hour? Yeah right, check out the existing 526 intersections at that time of day. Parking lot. It is an ISLAND and if you choose to live on an ISLAND you should expect to be inconvienced with travel time. Extending the road will simply bring more people and I think we all know the end result. On a side note, it is good to see a large number of native folks on the board. I grew up here as well and really do value the input of long time residents over those who have recently moved to the area. Not that other opinions are not important, only to say, that we have seen the affects of change or "progress" in the area and not all have been positive. A design review would be a great thing for 526, if for no other reason than to get more feedback from John's island residents.

Posted by pompusmaximus on January 2, 2008 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

As a life long resident, I would fully support 526 if there were guarantees in place on smart urban design principles being applied to new potential development. I’m talking about mixed use, walk able, bike able, anti-sprawl, Daniel Island style development. I DO NOT want to see John’s Island turned into another Shadow Moss or Grand Oaks cookie cutter suburban hellhole. I think the lack of support for planning as well as landowners just trying to earn a quick buck will compromise this potential. We as a community need to support these innovative types of developments in our area. We need town centers and gathering places, and no I’m not talking about Mt. Pleasants town center (a.k.a an outdoor mall) but REAL actual town centers that have mixed residential, commercial and industrial purposes as well as mixed affordability. Honestly, is that too much to ask from you people?

Posted by charlestonian on January 2, 2008 at 11:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think it would help to alleviate traffic, look at large majority of the rush hour traffic at the end of the day. It's people coming from the James Island area who are cutting across Johns Island to get over to 17. Build 526 and that ought to kill off a lot of that cut thru traffic which clogs the roads.

The only answer to to retaining the rural nature of Johns Island and reduce the influx of houses and people is ZONING.. Take a look at Wadmalaw Island it's still very rural, why aren't there big developments with houses stacked on top of each other? They have a minimum lot size ordinance that doesn't fit well with larger micro house developments. Change the zoning for Johns Island to have a minimum lot size of 1 acre and you would retain that rural feel, even a .75 acre lot.

Spend your time, energy, and money fighting for zoning changes and not impeding the inevitable 526 and the current and future residents of Johns Island will benefit from it.

A Johns Island resident in support of 526...

Posted by icbmman on January 2, 2008 at 11:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Listen, the one thing that is going to save Johns Island from massive development is that it will only have one interchange at Maybank Highway. Look at Mt. P's part of I-526, for example. It has multiple intersections, with fairly uncontrolled development. The difference with JI is that there will only be one interchange (like Daniel Island), and strict zoning is being carried out by the city of Chas, at least for now.

Here's my question for JI residents: do they think that leaving things as they are is going to help anything? Do they really think that just widening current roads is planning for the future? As has been mentioned earlier, steady development is already taking place on the island. Eventually, this development will bottleneck most of the island, as it does in parts of it already. I-526 is the means to prepare for the future in this way. Postponing it more just wreaks of lunacy.

Posted by YankeeLady on January 2, 2008 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Alternatives to the outdated, antiquated proposal for I-526 should and must be examined. The present proposal, to my knowledge, cuts right through part of the James Island County Park, and runs in close proximity to several neighborhoods on James Island. In a climate where there is great emphasis on "greenbelts" and taxpayer-purchased open land, why remove part of existing natural habitat?

Other designs have been proposed but it seems as if the present one has been etched in stone, if not on the drawing board then in the brains of those who support the proposal.

The present design is 30 years old - haven't traffic engineering concepts and population/planning forecasts changed? It's time to review this whole project, particularly where it may seriously impact the environment.

This road will bring more people, and hasten development. The Urban Growth Boundary has already been ignored by the current administration; do you think things will not continue to expand in John's Island? By the way, what happens to the other end of I-526 at Calhoun Street? Where does all that extra traffic go?

What is more disappointing is the the scheduled charettes are held during work hours, so that no one can attend. I wonder whether this is intentional to limit citizen input.

Building won't stop, and from what I've heard from the Planning Commission, traffic doesn't matter.

I say NO to the completion of I-526 in its present state, and that's not because I'm unaware of or afraid of "progress". There has got to be a better way of addressing traffic issues, and a newer, less costly, and less environmentally destructive alternative.

Posted by icbmman on January 2, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

YankeeLady, some of what you wrote is BLATANTLY false. The route of I-526 actually abuts the northern boundary of James Island County Park...it does not cut right through it, and your statement continues to show that you obstructionists will manipulate the facts and lie in order to satisfy your agenda.

Again, you and your ilk also ignore the FACT that expansion is already occurring on Johns Island, with the I-526 extension not even built yet.

Did you know that in order for your house to be built, the environment was "destroyed"? Every time people oppose a highway, they describe it as something that will literally flatten thousands of acres of trees and marsh, another manipulation of the truth.

You know what is really hilarious? I see all of these workshops clamoring for alternatives to I-526, but they have never devised anything remotely effective. What is ONE really effective alternative? I'd be willing to bet that there none.

Posted by CMLMADDOG on January 2, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have an alternative!

Outlaw motor vehicles. Horses & buggies are the way to go!

No more motor vehicle tax either! We can all spend that money to stimulate the economy, then we ALL win...plus we can all continue to enjoy the pretty trees! Yay!

Posted by captivated on January 2, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Charlestonian, I think you are right about the zoning solution. My lot is .9 acres and my house is 90 ft from the mailbox. I can sit on my front porch and read with little distraction. Oh, if only the entire island could be zoned for half acre or above lots only, we could keep that rural atmosphere. The simple fact is, I-526 will be built no matter how many groups protest. Maybe the planned widening of Maybank might help alleviate that rush hour parking lot problem. It might be a good idea for these protest groups to concentrate on the rezoning issue instead of beating that dead horse.

Posted by YankeeLady on January 2, 2008 at 12:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

icbman - the proposed road DOES take part of the JI County Park, so what I say is NOT blatantly false, but it is evident that you're mind has been long-closed to even thinking about other alternatives.

All construction requires that some environment is destroyed - even those of my "ilk" realize that. But thinking about approaching this problem in a brand new way is worth the time and effort of reviewing the project. Why don't you go to the planning sessions and put your money where your mouth is?

Posted by My_50Cents_Worth on January 2, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Longview,
I agree with you about the traffic not being relieved. You live on an island, if traffic on the road is too much for you take your boat or sit in traffic.

I lived on Johns Island when there were NO traffic lights and the local store was a ‘Red and White’ so I have really witnessed the development over the years; development had been moderate and good…to date. I, personally, do not care about the marsh, the trees, tomato fields, or anything else related to the environment. I care about the fact that the folks who will benefit the most will lose nothing in the end. Additionally, there will be little relief of the kind of traffic the island faces in my opinion. Folks should expect to be inconvenienced at some point; if the traffic is too much of a problem MOVE.

YankeeLady, I do recall a time when the 526 discussion included the property where the JI county park is. Folks on Riverland Drive began preparing for ‘big road’ that was due to run right through their front [and back] yards.

If everyone agreed on the issue this forum would not exist. Being met with a barrage of insolent responses by those who have differing views will not cause anyone to modify their view(s).

Posted by icbmman on January 2, 2008 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

YankeeLady, please observe the map. OK, it takes a part of JICP, but this area is an unused portion because it is at the park's northern tip. Actually, I would much rather have it there than have to bulldoze people's houses and put it in their backyards.

Actually, you know what the best alternative for this extension is? Build part of it as a tunnel. However, there is no way this state would be willing to spend that kind of money on this project.

Posted by postman01 on January 2, 2008 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The most heartening thing about this commentary in the P & C is that it shows SENSIBLE people are in the majority. I think it's fascinating how a desperate minority that has nothing better to do than CONSTANTLY repeat the same thing has somehow--until now--managed to get us to believe that their flipped out opinion should be taken seriously.

So good for us. This forum and countless others like it are changing the world in fits and starts for the better. Very good.

Posted by Chief_SittingBull on January 2, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Johns Island...hmmm; I'm a Wadmalaw/James Island fan-better access to the water!

When compared to other places its size, the traffic is really not that bad. I am one of those who traveled to Kiawah for business and it is true that that's where the bulk of the traffic starts and ends.

Sensible people are in the majority, Postman01? Is that the way it works?

Posted by My_50Cents_Worth on January 2, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by icbmman on January 2, 2008 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Actually, you know what the best alternative for this extension is? Build part of it as a tunnel. However, there is no way this state would be willing to spend that kind of money on this project."

A tunnel would be awesome, but you are right...funding would be a huge issue. A tunnel was discussed as a means for golfers to cross Maybank Highway when the new Stono was built...needless to say, that did not happen, but they worked it out!

Posted by icbmman on January 2, 2008 at 1:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Uh, yeah Chief, that's the way it SHOULD work. Many sensible people actually want Charleston to grow, having more businesses and better infrastructure, but many of us were silenced, usually because we actually had to work for a living. We didn't have the time to form organizations. Now, we have a venue to get our opinion noticed instead of organizations like the Hysterical Chas Foundation and CCL monopolizing the media.

Posted by Chief_SittingBull on January 2, 2008 at 1:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I understand your anguish; but I’m not responsible for your ‘pain.’ I think it goes, “The majority rules.” “Ruling” does not make you RIGHT.

How about this: in the future, I will just think whatever you think. Would that make things better?

For the record: I am not affected by I-526 either way. I do hope that both sides can come together and find a viable solution, which is what I believe you ALL who are posting want when it’s all said and done.

Posted by icbmman on January 2, 2008 at 2:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Chief, a viable solution is not suitable for these extremist groups, and that is why people like me want the thing built immediately because it is long overdue.

Posted by Chief_SittingBull on January 2, 2008 at 2:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Icbmman-- Like I said, I understand your anguish, in fact everyone's anguish.

Just curious icbmman, do you view the residents who may oppose this in the same light you do the "extremist groups?" Are you an islander? I ask because I doubt that many of them and their concerns are represented by the 'extremists'. The 'extremists,' I believe may have their own agenda also. I grew up in Charleston, I know people on just about all the Sea Islands. The average residents do not really care for these extreme groups either, in fact they are blamed partly for the development that has occurred causing these 'larger highways' to be a necessity...Natives are often distrusting and accuse them of making deals with the devil in back rooms and advocating with and for residents in public.

If I am inaccurate as it relates to the residents’ views I am sure I will be corrected. I am sure you are aware that you come off just as extreme in your passion about this issue.

Judging from all the other major projects that have taken place on JHN Island in recent years, the 526 issue will work out...and most likely cooler heads will prevail.

Posted by ImplantedYankee on January 2, 2008 at 3:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Doug: I am glad I can be a thorn in your white-hooded side. The only drawback is that I can't take back the benefits that I and other "from off's" have brought to your communities.

Posted by icbmman on January 2, 2008 at 3:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Chief, I do think some islanders have a legitimate concern, but as soon as they start siding with CCL people, they lose all credibility, IMO. My biggest beef with the project is that we have impotent people in city and state leadership who do not know how to make a decision. All they want is more talk, more studies, more workshops, more discussion...and this has been going on for more than 20 years. All they're doing is stalling and wasting taxpayer money. The studies have been done and the planning has been done. It is time to quit talking and start doing.

I'm not a person who hates trees and wants all of the Chas area to be filled with 50-story skyscrapers. However, people in these groups have twisted the minds of many to portray that if you're pro-development on anything, you're an extremist. They use extreme words such as "destroy", "pillage", "rape", and "decimate" when it comes to development. That, my friend, is sheer lunacy.

Posted by ColdBeer on January 2, 2008 at 4:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ImplantedYankee, don't even bother trying to reason with Doug. He was a little measly jerk that thought he knew it all at the shipyard and apparently he still feels the same. All of the sailors used to laugh at him behind his back. He's an old man (gotta be pushing 70 by now) with no friends. Hell, he moved (way up north) from the low country years ago. Either he has alienated everyone up there, or he was unable to make friends to begin with. Why he still bothers to post here, when it's obvious that know one cares what he thinks, is a mystery. I think he absorbed a few too many neutrons during his career at the CNSY.

Posted by pompusmaximus on January 2, 2008 at 4:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Charlestonian, I agree that putting energy into proper zoning would produce more results. However, the landowners who wish to cash in on the new extension of 526 will raise hell when zoning restrictions are discussed. They will claim that we are telling them what to do with their property and how that is a violation of their freedom. I see it at every meeting. These people never want planning. On the other hand groups like the CCL want to stop growth all together. It seems that unless you are a zealot (i.e. CCL or Charleston Trident Home Builders Association) than you will get ignored.

Posted by longview on January 2, 2008 at 5:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, that's a pretty cocky assumption Yankee. I can't image what "benefits" you have inflicted on this area. Growth will happen inevitably. People like this will move here and there is nothing that can be done about it. Personally, I welcome every newcomer to the area without prejudice or preconception and must admit to having been both impressed and completely put off at many that I've met. Priding yourself as a thorn in someone's side is generally pathetic.
Great discussion to date. In fact, the extension may be a great idea and asset to the island. While I do not believe that it will alleviate traffic, the current status is close to being out of hand. So what are we to do? What happens when you can't widen the road any further? Get used to life on John's (see James) Island as being home to unbelievable suburban sprawl. I am in complete agreement about the necessity to property zone and plan to help in that effort in any way possible.
Longview

Posted by ImplantedYankee on January 2, 2008 at 6:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Longview -- you don't know what you're talking about. Doug never wastes an opportunity to blame all problems on "from-off's" and will even go so far as to openly express support for groups such as (as he puts it) the "triple k" which he extolled as "protecting the southern way of life." Given such attitudes, it's perfectly reasonable to take a little pride in personifying the antithesis of his sentiment. It would be pathetic NOT to. Let's face it. South Carolina was last in SATs and first in STDs long before growth.

As for the benefits of "from off's" moving here -- consider a few. I was offered a full academic scholarship to a southern school which helped it maintain its accreditation and its legitimacy as an institution of higher learning. It's difficult to achieve that with a bunch of under-performing local students. The high tech jobs which are offered to those out of state due to a lack of local talent grow the tax base, improve property values, and improve local quality of life.

These words are actually stronger than my actual feelings on the matter, but also consider this: I didn't come here with that attitude. I arrived excited to live in a place with similar political beliefs (and where my ballot would be worth more than a sheet of Hillary's toilet paper), greater faith, lower taxes (where I wouldn't be punished as badly with taxes for my achievements), southern hospitality, warmer climate, and polite people. I also brought with me a belief in state's rights which was unusual in a northern state. I expected to become a part of this place. What I found instead was a lot of backward attitudes and beliefs, with people judging me for no other reason than the location of my birth. My attitude has been cultivated by several years of this nonsense. When someone like Doug is always blaming the region's problems on "from off's" (though he didn't use those words in his posts here), it brings it out.

Posted by icbmman on January 3, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Implanted, I really do apologize for how you've been treated since you moved to my hometown. The reasons you gave for your move are particularly encouraging, because it demonstrates that not all Northerners follow the stereotype of fiscal and social liberals. It really is pathetic that some Chas people automatically judged you based on an area where you grew up, completely shunning the culture and reputation of our southern city as warm, friendly, and polite.

When I moved back to my hometown 5 years ago, I LOVED the fact that people from north, i.e. "Yankees", were moving to Chas in droves. I still think it's great...and I welcome them with open arms. I think that my fellow Southerners need to follow suit or just shut the hell up. Being rude and unwelcoming to newcomers who are especially from the northeast is just being a selfish jacka$$. For some Charlestonians, if you want to continue living in a small, boring Southern town, why don't you move to Beaufort or Georgetown? They're only 1.5 hours away. There is no excuse for Southerners to place judgments on newcomers to the Chas area, and as long as you continue to do so, the Southern culture/reputation will become nothing more than a myth.

It is time to embrace Northern (or any other region) newcomers as new citizens to our city and state, and maybe if we get some of the policy makers heads out of their a$$, we can make this city and state an even better place to live.