Second deputy admits joking'He passed suicide bomber school quick,' one said By Andy Paras (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Thursday, February 21, 2008
Provided Youssef Megahed, left, and Ahmed Mohamed. TranscriptRead the transcript of the Aug. 4, 2007 traffic stop by Berkeley County deputies. Source: Associated Press A second Berkeley County deputy sheriff on Wednesday admitted to making derogatory jokes about two Egyptians just moments before finding explosive materials in the trunk of their car in a traffic stop last summer. A federal judge now must decide whether the actions and racist banter of Deputy Andy Taylor and Cpl. James Lamar Blakely are enough to warrant dismissing crucial evidence against the University of South Florida students. Taylor testified in federal court in Tampa, Fla., that the jokes are one way deputies deal with the stress and danger of their job. "We can be crass and rude," he said. "I believe that's part of the job." Both deputies who stopped and searched the car occupied by Ahmed Mohamed and Youssef Megahed on Aug. 4 in Goose Creek acknowledged they made racist statements about the pair, equating them to the Taliban and joking about them being suicide bombers. Taylor's testimony came on the second day of a hearing on a defense motion to suppress evidence found in the car, including ammunition and loosely packed explosives Mohamed and Megahed said were fireworks. Attorneys for the two, both Egyptian nationals, say the officers didn't have probable cause to search the car. Defense attorneys argued the deputies acted improperly and lacked probable cause to detain the pair and search their vehicle. Prosecutors argued the deputies grew suspicious because the men couldn't produce the car's registration and seemed to be taking a circuitous route to North Carolina. Prosecutors and the deputies said also that the Florida license plate on the car and the men's presence near an area known for drugs raised more red flags. Blakely pulled over the men for speeding, but defense attorneys told U.S. Magistrate Judge Mark Pizzo that his explanations for the stop didn't make sense. Neither Blakely nor Taylor mentioned suspicion of drug running during the stop, which was recorded by a dashboard camera. Instead, the pair seemed fixated during their conversation about the pair's ethnicity. The deputies can be heard nervously discussing and joking about the suspicious nature of the defendants during the traffic stop, a few miles from the Naval Weapons Station. Blakely told Taylor that both men were holding Qurans in their laps and the driver couldn't clearly explain where they were going or where they had been, according to a transcript of the tape. Taylor: "Maybe they're gonna practice the suicide bombing here?" Blakely: "Hey, man, not right now. I think they're Islamic. Are they Islamic? I'm just assuming. I'm just assuming." Taylor, referring to Megahed's driver's license: "Well, he passed ... suicide bomber school quick. 02/08 of 1986." Blakely: "This one's '81." Taylor: "They're going up to blow up the Berkeley County lot." Blakely: "That or they've damn been over there at the base." Both Taylor and Blakely acknowledged in court that the statements were "unprofessional." Attorneys argued that Blakely planned to search the car, regardless of whether they gave him permission. Blakely had already planned to issue the pair a warning for speeding but didn't return their driver's licenses quickly enough, said James Smith, a public defender representing Megahed. Instead, the men were removed from the car, and Blakely asked Mohamed if he could search the car. Mohamed replied, "If you must," the patrol car video showed. His attorney, Lyann Goudie, said this did not qualify as consent. Pizzo asked pointed questions of both prosecutors and defense attorneys, questioning whether a Florida license plate and taking a minute to pull over were legitimate reasons for Blakely's suspicions. Blakely, a member of a special anti-drug squad, testified that Florida is a state known for its drug- running, and seeing Sunshine State plates in the area he patrols is uncommon. Pizzo also challenged Smith about whether Blakely's and Taylor's remarks about the men mattered. Smith said they reflected Blakely's true feelings and that he intended to search the men whether they consented or not. Ahmed Bedier, executive director of the Tampa chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a civil rights organization for Muslims, attended the hearing. He said it was clear from the testimony that the deputies' preconceived notions guided their actions more than standard operating procedure. "Their bias has jeopardized their own investigation," Bedier said. "If they had conducted themselves in a professional manner without bias we wouldn't be here today." Mohamed, 26, and Megahed, 21, have been in jail since the traffic stop. They are both charged with illegally transporting explosives. Mohamed is also charged with trying to help terrorists by posting a video of himself on the Internet showing how to use a remote-controlled toy to detonate a bomb. While the men have maintained all along that the items were homemade fireworks, federal authorities said the items met the federal legal definition of explosives. FBI analysts determined that the mixture could explode if it was packed more tightly in the pipe and capped. Berkeley County Sheriff Wayne Dewitt has declined to answer any questions about the case or any disciplinary action taken that might be taken against the deputies at the request of the U.S. Attorney's Office. Blair Jennings, the sheriff's legal counsel, said they'll discuss the case once it's over. Adam Allen, another federal public defender appointed for Megahed, said the federal magistrate who presided over the hearing will now make a recommendation on whether to grant or deny the motion to suppress evidence. Attorneys will have a chance to comment on that recommendation before it goes to a district judge for a decision, he said. The Associated Press contributed to this report. Reach Andy Paras at 745-5891 or aparas@postandcourier.com. |
Article tools |
|
Notice about comments: Charleston.net is pleased to offer readers the ability to comment on stories. We expect our readers to engage in lively, yet civil discourse. Charleston.net does not edit user submitted statements and we cannot promise that readers will not occasionally find offensive or inaccurate comments posted in the comments area. Responsibility for the statements posted lies with the person submitting the comment, not charleston.net. If you find a comment that is objectionable, please click "suggest removal" and we will review it for possible removal. Please be reminded, however, that in accordance with our Terms of Use and federal law, we are under no obligation to remove any third party comments posted on our website. Full terms and conditions can be read here. |
Comments
This article has 120 comment(s)
Posted by Mayor on February 21, 2008 at 3:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Andy Taylor. Where's Opie?
Posted by The_Mouth_of_the_South on February 21, 2008 at 6:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
These muslim terrorists have found an unscrupulous ambulance chaser who is just looking for anything (even if it is immaterial) to get these two criminal sprung. We need to just execute these two and leave their bodies on the steps of their embassy as a warning to other terrorists.
Posted by moonpie on February 21, 2008 at 6:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
SO WHAT!
Posted by outrage on February 21, 2008 at 6:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Definition of Probable Cause
Many factors contribute to a police officer’s level of authority in a given situation. Understanding the what, when, why, and how of police conduct during a stop is confusing for most people. Varying standards of proof exist to justify varying levels of police authority during citizen contacts.
Reasonable suspicion Facts or circumstances which would lead a reasonable person to suspect that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed
At this stage, police may detain the suspect for a brief period and perform a frisk. In some cases, drug-sniffing dogs may be called to the scene, although officers must cite a reason for suspecting the presence of drug evidence in particular. Refusing a search does not create reasonable suspicion, although acting nervous and answering questions inconsistently can. For this reason, it is best not to answer questions if you have to lie in order to do so. Police authority increases if they catch you in a lie, but not if you refuse to answer questions. As a general rule, reasonable suspicion applies to situation in which police have reason to believe you’re up to something, but they don’t know what it is.
Probable cause Facts or evidence that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed and the person arrested is responsible
At this stage, police may perform a search, and often an arrest. Probable cause generally means police know what crime they suspect you of and have discovered evidence to support that belief. Common examples include seeing or smelling evidence which is in plain view.
Good job guys!
Posted by DanniD on February 21, 2008 at 7:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Did they even need probable cause? If you read the transcript, the deputy asked if he could search the vehicle, and the driver agreed.
Posted by gococks1985 on February 21, 2008 at 7:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Actually DanniD, they did not agree, the driver said "if you must."
The bottom line here is that the deputy's who pulled them over just threw this case away IF they are in fact memebers of the taliban or terrorists. Making those remarks was extremely unprofessional to say the least. I hope they are punished for their lack of professionalism.
Posted by disco on February 21, 2008 at 7:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
These cops need to be fired. You know, if they are making racial comments about these two, they are doing it against other minorities. Also, if these guys are really terrorists, they probably won't get charged because of what these dumb cops did.
Posted by Hey_U_Guys on February 21, 2008 at 7:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Heaven forbid Berkeley County officers act professional. I can guarantee that if these boys were black, the racist comments would've been kept to themselves!
Posted by charlestonnative68 on February 21, 2008 at 7:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree moonpie, who cares? What the hell does that have to do with anything?
Posted by Riptide on February 21, 2008 at 7:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I fail to see how a few unprofessional remarks can negate the evidence against these two individuals. If the touchy-feely people are so concern about our view points on Islamic terrorists, did it ever occur to the politically correct people what these terrorists or the Islamic world in general think about Americans? I can assure you it is far worst.
Posted by thebugqueen01 on February 21, 2008 at 7:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
AS YOU SHOULD KNOW FIRE WORKS ARE STILL ILLEGAL IN NORTH CAROLINA.
Posted by thebugqueen01 on February 21, 2008 at 7:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
THEIR FINAL DESTINATION WAS NORTH CAROLINA. THE GENTLEMEN SHOULD HAVE BEEN INFORMED OF THAT.
Posted by 5thGenerationLocal on February 21, 2008 at 7:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
While the comments may have been Racist, they were calling a spade a spade. They did have explosives and they were up to something. What they were up to is still not certain, but why else would you be carrying this stuff?
Posted by Clemson1979 on February 21, 2008 at 7:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am sorry, but I would be freaked out also if I were the cops. Qurans in their laps?? Put yourself in the cops shoes.
Posted by Hey_U_Guys on February 21, 2008 at 7:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If I were them, I'd sue for defamation of character and slander. Now, which atoorney would handle that case?! Any guesses?!?!
Posted by Hey_U_Guys on February 21, 2008 at 7:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
attorney* not atoorney
Posted by darkness_2lite on February 21, 2008 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
My son and nephew (blacks) was riding in a vehicle with their friend (white), when he was pulled over for speeding. The police give the driver a ticket but asked my son and nephew to vacate the vechicle, and then began too check them; while their friend, the driver remain in the vehicle. If someone is being singled-out then this was wrong. Know saying this, I still feel that if evidence were found, then it should be used in the case; if the intent was there.
Posted by darkness_2lite on February 21, 2008 at 8:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
gave the driver a ticket (sorry)
Posted by theronce on February 21, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Now, if the Keebler elves had declared war on me and attacked my fellow citizens, I would profile and keep an eye on every Keebler elf around me. If the Keebler elf was caught speeding, and second, did not have a registration for the vehicle, and third, said that they were on their way to North Carolina by happenstance passing through North Charleston, then I would believe that I had been lied to at least once. I appreciate the cops for putting themselves on the line for us. However, how dumb can you be to make such comments when you know that you are on camera.
Posted by mosinfan on February 21, 2008 at 8:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Mohamed is also charged with trying to help terrorists by posting a video of himself on the Internet showing how to use a remote-controlled toy to detonate a bomb."
John Q, would you rather these guys continue teaching their brethren how to blow us up.
Get a clue dude!
Could the cops have been more professional, you bet. Does this rise to the level of throwing out hard evidence...not hardly.
Posted by 2001to5930 on February 21, 2008 at 8:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I say - be safe than sorry...with the current state of affairs and atmosphere in this country (post-911). I agree with the cops, ignorant or not!!! Those statements WERE VERY FUNNY in a "Larry the Cable Guy" sorta way.
John Q. How do you operate/steer your vehicle with your hands "clutching" the Bible? Just curious.
Posted by PennyGirl on February 21, 2008 at 8:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If we had a litle more aggressive action taken by law enforcement we would have avoided all sorts of trouble including 9/11.
I for one don't expect country cops to act like anything more than that...and don't really care. As long as someone didn't get blown up then it's OK by me.
Posted by blah_blah_blah on February 21, 2008 at 8:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thou shalt not Judge!
I am all for finding the terrorist and killing them. but not every muslim is a terrorist.
I am all for punishing illegal immigrants. but not every Mexican here is illegal.
I am all for holding criminals responsible. but not everyone with a different name than yours is a criminal.
I am all for open political discussion. but not every Christian is a Republican.
And all of these judgements have been expressed on these forums. Hold people responsible, but quit judging EVERYONE, please.
Posted by datadiva on February 21, 2008 at 8:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
very well said blah_blah!!!!
Posted by RTC on February 21, 2008 at 9:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If anyone has been following this story from the beginning then they would know that these two are not innocent students.
The cops should have kept their mouths shut and shared their remarks at a later time. I really hope their lack of professionalism has not hurt this case.
The interviews with Mohamed and the interviews with Megahed's father have shown too many inconsistencies.
The video is the real clincher, and no one should believe that they only want to blow up infidels in Arabic countries. They hate infidels period, and that especially includes U.S. citizens.
Profiling has become a necessity after 9/11, and it should have been going on long before that.
No one knows where these two were actually going, or if they were perhaps meeting up with others.
Despite the remarks by the two officers it was still a good stop.
Posted by jammer on February 21, 2008 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ahemm so what...
you have to profile in order to be on alert for the different types of crimes that different demographics are more prone to do
look at the percentages of who does what and profile it, that's just common sense and has kept us pretty safe for a number of years
he's teaching people how to blow up others and he isn't even a part of some government org or military, that would make him a terrorist in my book... not that he just wants to know how, he's on a mission to teach others...
Posted by CHRISJIII on February 21, 2008 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree blah_blah_balh. I still say that the cops were wrong for pulling these guys over in the first place and now they are trying to lie their way out of trouble. Their racist comments tell the whole story as to why everything happened.
Posted by mac0cm4 on February 21, 2008 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Inappropriate comments do not detract from the merits of the case.
All these armchair defense attorneys in here. There's a law school in Charleston - go apply.
Posted by greyrider on February 21, 2008 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It was wrong, inappropriate, unprofessional, rude, but please send the Thought Police back to California or New York. This is America. People say wrong things, they apologize, we move on. There are real problems in the world.
Posted by camigreen on February 21, 2008 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
johnq,
You have got to be kidding. Every traffic stop is an investigation no matter how you look at it. If those deputies not made those comments, did the investigation and found the items in question, would you be the liberal prick that you are and still be making your comments? No. The fact is that if the deputies would have done what you said and wrote them a ticket and if they did not "see anything in plain view" let them go, and they did in fact do some horrible deed. It would have come out later that they were stopped and you would be the ignorant a#$ that would be on here wanting to know why they did nothing. You are what is wrong with this country. Because of people like you we cannot defend ourselves from terrorists because we might hurt someones feelings. You need to wake up.
Posted by ChrisPia on February 21, 2008 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"If You Must" is implied consent to search the car..These Officers were unprofessional BUT they did a Darn Good Job and saved some lives ....We can second guess their actions in court because of their words but it Appears to be a good search...FYI some bombers are seen with the Quran before they detonate......The FEAR for their officers safety could also be a factor in the search.We Were Not there and don't know the Details....I for one would like to Say "Thank You" for protecting us.
Posted by CedarPosts on February 21, 2008 at 9:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
These two, no matter how you explain it are terrorist wanna be's.
But keep in mind that "real terrorists" would have smoked Barney and Andy and we would have never known what happened just two dead cops on a traffic stop.
The "real terrorists" are out there and they are not a couple of college kids trying to act like bad guys. While we are preoccupied and complacent with catching easy targets the real threat is out there they are not stupid punks with "I'm a Terrorist" written on their forehead and a Koran in their laps.
Posted by blah_blah_blah on February 21, 2008 at 9:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
CedarPosts,
very well said!
the real terrorist is bin Laden, who has been running free for the last 7 years!
Posted by whome on February 21, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The problem here is the exclusionary rule and far we're willing to suspend it. Here, we have officers on tape making comments about the suspects being terrorists before any probable cause (or for that matter reasonable suspicion) for that particular offense has surfaced.
A couple of years ago, before they identified the abortion/Olympic bomber, the profile was a southern white Christian male. So then would the police be justified in searching every single white male who had the a copy of the Bible in his car just because he violated traffic laws? Or would it have been fine if they pulled over a pickup truck that had a pro-life sticker and were caught on tape saying, "this is probably the abortion bomber?" What if the subsequent search didn't uncover anything illegal, but just something embarassing (e.g. Larry Craig)?
BTW. A drug sniffing dog is not considered a search. The police do not to have probable cause or even reasonable suspicion to perform a sniff test. In theory, the police could have a drug sniffing dog on the sidewalk, and if the dog alerts, there is probable cause to search you.
Posted by tbo on February 21, 2008 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Maybe they meant harm, and maybe the didn't. The contents of the trunk in their current state were just fireworks, but *could* have been used to make pipe bombs. But they werent't pipe bombs, they were fireworks.
I think the point here is that these cops have effectively screwed this case up. Even if the evidence is admitted, they bungled this thing big time. The evidence won't be looked at as objectively as it could have been had the cops not been COMPLETE idiots ON CAMERA. These guys are supposed to be trained in law enforcement, and should know what comments like these on camera can do to a case. I'm sure every cop out on the streets says a lot worse stuff every day, and that's frankly OK with me, but you have to be CLUELESS to do it on camera.
Also, the idea that have a Florida license plate being probable cause is LUDICROUS. You are now profiling the citizens of an ENTIRE STATE because some drugs are run through Florida. News flash -- drugs are run through ALL 50 STATES. This is obviously just a CYA attempt by these cops anyway, since they didn't even mention drugs during the stop.
Posted by tbo on February 21, 2008 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
whome -- Good point, I was going to add that. People like to forget that most major terrorist acts before 9/11 were perpetrated by white males. It's more convenient that way.
And let's face it, white guys from Montana are no less crazy today than they were before 9/11!
Posted by theronce on February 21, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Blah, do not confuse judgement with discernment.
Posted by ColdBeer on February 21, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Being "crass and rude" should NOT be considered "part of the job". Having said that, where are the racist comments? Saying "I think they're Islamic" is not racist. Wondering if they are suicide bombers is not racist.
These were two guys that could not produce a vehicle registration, could not tell the police where they came from and were, for some reason, close to the Weapons Station as they drove from Florida to North Carolina???
The police WERE unprofessional, but I don't see anything that justifies any more than a reprimand by their command and probabaly some command wide training.
Posted by mosinfan on February 21, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
tbo,
Get your facts straight. The statement that these were fireworks came from the terrorists lawyers. The items found in the trunk included pipes. The experts have said they were just not "packed" tight enough to actually explode and cause much damage.
Just because these two were hacks does not mean that the items were simply "fireworks".
Please dont distort the facts of the case to advance your argument.
Posted by mosinfan on February 21, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
tbo and whome,
What terrorists acts are you speaking about before 9/11. Oklahoma city fits your description but thats about it. How about Beirut, 1st Trade center bombing, Khobar Towers, U.S.S. Cole???????????????????
...and 99.99% of the terrorists acts since then have been conducted by Arab males.
Posted by jammer on February 21, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
whome you are comparing one white guy with the hundreds of thousands of known muslim TERRORIST
if the majority of white Christian males were terrorist I'd be on guard watching them as well, and of course would be perfectly OK with that profile and search
there are millions of terrorist in the world and many have a very obvious common denominator you can't ignore
comparing a few dozen white guys over the years that were out of their minds with a gigantic movement like Alqueda and the likes who number in the millions has no merit
if I'd walked past a white guys house and smelled a strong ammonia smell I would immediately profile them as worthless drug addicts making meth and would call the police... if it was found later that they were just cleaning there house no harm done, but chances are they really were making meth
if I see gang banging looking white, black, or mexican guy standing on a dim lit corner at 3am I would automatically profile him as a dope dealer and he should be questioned IMHO
and so on
in todays time we have to profile and there's a thin line you have to walk in order not to invade peoples privacy and rights
I wouldn't say it was OK to raid a 90 yr old ladies house looking for someone that doesn't even live there and shoot granny dead like happened recently, that was abuse and needed to be corrected
checks n balances
but I'm perfectly OK with watching ALL muslims until this jihad thing where they think everyone should either be like them or dead is put to rest
Posted by UrGatorbait on February 21, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Gotta love the local yokels here in South Carolina, especially the BCSD lads. If the case for some reason gets tossed due to the unprofessional conduct(It might just get tossed) then maybe we should train Andy and Barney to be a little more professional and maybe leave the comments off camera. Use county money to train and pay the LEOs better but hey we taxpayers in Berkeley county can pay a mid-level human resources person $90K a year so why should we expect any improvement or professionalism from the BCSD? We get what we pay for. If your satisfied with that level of service then please just hand me your hard earned money.
To those that say Good for them, when you are pulled over and they want to rifle through your car or merely "detain" you in cuffs by the side of the road while they search your car under the ambiguous probable cause catch all; let us know what a great job they are doing afterwards. In their eyes you are guilty until innocent I guess it's the way they have to be to protect themselves. If the two guys in question only got a ticket and something happened later, than people like camigreen would probably be outraged that them people wasn't cavity searched and beat until they confessed. If that didn't work maybe he could form a posse on armed militias patrolling the highways and by-ways of Berkeley county stopping people that looked suspicious would keep ol' cami happy. Our tax dollars could buy them matching outfits.
They saved lives? Are you sure? The sweeping generalizations on here are what feed the paranoia level in the US that miscreant extremists use against us. Let the professionals handle the terrorists. Since the county is obviously on the forefront of protecting us with a high value target like the Naval Weapons Station in the area, one would expect some professionals. Instead the country is given fuel to reinforce the duh-huness of the area and it's world class education system. If we're going to catch them let's make a real effort to do it right from start to finish. Let's not emulate their particular style of half baked justice. As nasty as terrorists and these so called wannabes can or might have have been, they are guilty until proven innocent. If that concept of American law bothers some, then go spend some time in Saudi Arabia or Iran. You'll enjoy it Camigreen
Posted by UrGatorbait on February 21, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yep there are hundreds of thousands of terrorists and millions of others just wanting to blow us up. More government/MSM fed paranoia.
The comments here are amazing. Give up liberty to keep your freedom as long as it isn't your own liberty that's being trampled on? That's very kind of you. When the government decides angry white guys wearing blue jeans are the terrorists will you rail against the profiling? Some really need some perspective.
Like I said before when any of you are alright with being detained and searched because you might/maybe represent or be a bad guy...let us know your experience.
Posted by tbo on February 21, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
mosin -- My point is that they may very well have been explosives, or intended to be pipe bombs, but because of those 2 dumb cops that evidence will not get the same objective view from the jury. I'm all for getting to the bottom of it, but the cops' actions on camera are going to hinder that from happening.
You have obviously already convicted them, guilty until proven innocent right? That's the American way?
On the terrorist comment, let me clarify that & say "most major terrorist acts IN THIS COUNTRY before 9/11 were perpetrated by white males." Abortion clinic bombings, Oklahoma City, the Unibomber, church burnings, random school/work/church shootings, anthrax in the mail, etc., etc., etc. These are terrorist attacks.
Anyway, you are OBVIOUSLY pulling "99.9%" of our you a$$, so don't berate me about facts. Unless you wanna provide a citation for that, which I know you don't have.
And Al Qaeda does not number in the millions. Give me a break. They are a threat but they do NOT number in the millions. That is 100% unsubstantiated.
Posted by Test2007 on February 21, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
While I agree that there are a lot of terrorists of middle eastern descent, I would not agree that 99.9% of terrorists fit that bill. The Basque (terrorist plots in Spain), Irish National Liberation Army, Tamil Tigers (Sri Lanka),Revolutionary Organization 17 November, Shining Path (Peru) and so on are all terrorist groups not of middle eastern descent. We also have lunatic environmental groups here in the US. Unfortunately the muslim terrorist groups are more organized in their criminal activities. It also depends on where you live. If you live in one of the areas where any of the groups I mentioned above reside you could probably care less about Al Quaeda because you had your friendly local terrorists blowing things up already.
Posted by tbo on February 21, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good point about the environmentalists Test. Tree spiking kills or injures a LOT of timber workers every year. It's a completely despicable practice. You've got people blowing up SUVs, etc., etc. They are terrorists too.
Posted by outrage on February 21, 2008 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What scares me most is that some of the people on this board, might end up on this jury.
Making unprofessional comments, does not constitute the suppression of evidence. Some of you people watch too much TV.
Posted by CedarPosts on February 21, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Due to its secrecy and structure, al-Qaeda's size is difficult to establish.
However, al-Qaeda is active in more than 100 countries so if you assume between 50-100 members in each country and you still have a lot of angry people.
Add in other terror groups and a million terrorists is not hard to come up with, though they may have varying degrees or alignment with bin laden
Posted by Test2007 on February 21, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
tbo - Does tree spiking still occur?
Posted by Girleygirl on February 21, 2008 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Did the police say it where these two guys heard it? If not I don't see what the point is. Yes they were unprofessional, but they also did their job being that they pulled these two over for speeding.
Posted by tbo on February 21, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I assume so Test, haven't heard about it lately though. I don't think the nutzo environmentalists have gone away.
Cedar -- 100 members in 100 countries = 10,000 members. I'd argue that's even a stretch, but it's still 990,000 less than 1 million. That's a completely overblown number.
outrage -- I 100% agree, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter what you or I think, only how the jury views the evidence. The cops being idiots on camera potentially jeopardizes the jury viewing the evidence objectively. Had they not made those comments ON CAMERA, this would be a non-issue. Why risk derailing the case at all? Why not keep your mouth shut & act like a trained law enforcement office AT LEAST ON CAMERA? That's all I'm saying.
Posted by forget on February 21, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Unfortunately we live in a world where we have to be preemptive. They pulled them over for speeding. They didn't have a valid registration, which is something that the rest of us would be cited for, etc. They gave a strange answer for why they were where they were at. All of us that live here know that GC is not where you end up if you get off the interstate, even if you are lost. Way off the beaten path. Along with what they found in the car and the history in the laptop, can we let these guys loose to continue what they might have been planning?
This political correctness is ruining this country. Who cares what the deputies said that night. These officers need to be commended for a job well done, not be raked over the coals. For all of these people that have said something negative about the BCSD, do any of you want to pull over cars on the road late at night? Or how about raiding one of the meth houses lately? I know I don't.
They might have said something that in an ordinary situation might have been inappropriate, but haven't we all said something inappropriate at one time or another?
Posted by blah_blah_blah on February 21, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
tbo
the nutzo environmentalists haven't gone away. i will tell them all you said hi tonight. and let me add another "discernment"
I am all for protecting the environment, because it is what sustains us. but not every environmentalist spikes trees.
Posted by tbo on February 21, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
forget -- you're missing the point. I agree with every single thing that you just said. The point is that, in the world we live in today, the comments they made on camera may jeopardize the case. it was a dumb thing to do. doesn't mean it SHOULD be considered a dumb thing to do, or that they SHOULD not be raked over the coals. the FACT is that when the police say something like that on camera, it can & will screw up the case in court.
reminds me of the whole Imus thing. to me, it shouldn't have mattered that he said that. he's a talk show host, if you don't like it, change the station. but in today's world, you have to be smart enough to know that if you say something like that, it's going to come back & bite you. doesn't mean it's right, that's just the way it is & you have be realistic about it. so he was dumb for saying it, he should have known what would happen, even though i don't personally think he should have been reprimanded or fired for it.
same principle.
Posted by tbo on February 21, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)
blah_blah_blah -- well said. the ones that don't spike trees aren't nutzo, and i never implied that they were. nor did i imply that every environmentalist is a tree-spiking SUV-bomber. just the nutzo ones.
Posted by The_Mouth_of_the_South on February 21, 2008 at 12:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Can someone tell me who was responsible for all these terrorist attacks over the last 37 years (I stopped at 2001 because there were many more after that)? Crazed Sponge Bob Fans? Angry Girl Scouts? Or just maybe, Muslim Men of Arabic origins:
· Attack on the Munich Airport, February 10, 1970
· Munich Olympic Massacre, September 5, 1972
· Ambassador to Sudan Assassinated, March 2, 1973
· Attack and Hijacking at the Rome Airport, December 17, 1973
· Ambassador to Cyprus Assassinated, August 19, 1974
· Assasination of Ambassador Francis E. Meloy, June 16, 1976
· Entebbe Hostage Crisis, June 27, 1976
· Ambassador to Afghanistan Assassinated, February 14, 1979
· Iran Hostage Crisis, November 4, 1979
· Unknown assailants in Beirut fired on Ambassador John Gunther Dean's car, August 27, 1980
· Bombing of U.S. Embassy in Beirut, April 18, 1983
· Bombing of Marine Barracks, Beirut, October 23, 1983
· Kidnapping of Embassy Official, March 16, 1984
· Restaurant Bombing in Spain, April 12, 1984
· TWA Hijacking, June 14, 1985
· Attack on a Restaurant in El Salvador, June 19, 1985
· Soviet Diplomats Kidnapped, September 30, 1985
· Achille Lauro Hijacking, October 7, 1985
· Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, November 23, 1985
· Airport Attacks in Rome and Vienna, December 27, 1985
· Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986
· Berlin Discothèque Bombing, April 5, 1986
· Kidnapping of William Higgins, February 17, 1988
· Naples USO Attack, April 14, 1988
· Pan Am 103 Bombing, December 21, 1988
· Bombing of UTA Flight 772, September 19, 1989
· Attempted Iraqi Attacks on U.S. Posts, January 18-19, 1991
· Bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17, 1992
Posted by The_Mouth_of_the_South on February 21, 2008 at 12:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
· World Trade Center Bombing, February 26, 1993
· Attempted Assassination of President Bush by Iraqi Agents, April 14, 1993
· Air France Hijacking, December 24, 1994
· Attack on U.S. Diplomats in Pakistan, March 8, 1995
· Jerusalem Bus Attack, August 21, 1995
· Saudi Military Installation Attack, November 13, 1995
· HAMAS Bus Attack, February 26, 1996
· Dizengoff Center Bombing, March 4, 1996
· West Bank Attack, May 13, 1996
· Khobar Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996
· Bombing of Archbishop of Oran, August 1, 1996
· Sudanese Rebel Kidnapping, August 17, 1996
· PUK Kidnapping, September 13, 1996
· Red Cross Worker Kidnappings, November 1, 1996
· Egyptian Letter Bombs, January 2-13, 1997
· Empire State Building Sniper Attack, February 23, 1997
· Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, September 4, 1997
· Yemeni Kidnappings, October 30, 1997
· Murder of U.S. Businessmen in Pakistan, November 12, 1997
· Tourist Killings in Egypt, November 17, 1997
· Somali Hostage-takings, April 15, 1998
· U.S. Embassy Bombings in East Africa, August 7, 1998
· Church Bombing in Tajikistan, October 1, 2000
· Attack on U.S.S. Cole, October 12, 2000
· Manila Bombing, December 30, 2000
· Suicide Bombing in Israel, March 4, 2001
· Airliner Hijacking in Istanbul, March 15, 2001
· Bus Stop Bombing, April 22, 2001
· Philippines Hostage Incident, May 27, 2001
· Tel-Aviv Nightclub Bombing, June 1, 2001
· HAMAS Restaurant Bombing, August 9, 2001
· Suicide Bombing in Israel, September 9, 2001
· Death of "the Lion of the Panjshir", September 9, 2001
· Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Homeland, September 11, 2001
· Anthrax Attacks, October-November 2001
· Assassination of an Israeli Cabinet Minister, October 17, 2001
· Attack on a Church in Pakistan, October 28, 2001
· Suicide Bombings in Jerusalem, December 1, 2001
· Suicide Bombing in Haifa, December 2, 2001
Qur'an 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends."
Qur'an 8:12 "I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes."
Qur'an 8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them."
Posted by forget on February 21, 2008 at 12:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
tbo - I understand the point, but the comments they made were insignificant. They weren't made before they pulled them over or they weren't pulled over because they were muslim. They were made to each other. When everything is said and done, I don't think it will have a bearing on this case. But, I didn't go to law school. So....
Like I said, we have to be preemptive. I come from a military family, my car has been searched dozens of times at various military installations. I don't have a problem with it. I look it as a precaution. We as a country need to appreciate our freedoms, but also be willing to forego some of them in the name of security. Being pulled over outside military installations for security reasons is one of those freedoms that seem worthwhile to put aside until the threat of terrorism is reeled in.
Posted by Test2007 on February 21, 2008 at 12:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mouth - I have a feeling you found that list somewhere that ONLY lists terrorist acts done by people of middle eastern origin. Like it has been said before, those aren't the only places that have had terrorist actions.
The Anthrax Attacks in 2001??
I didn't know that those were done by Middle eastern people. In fact, I didn't even know they caught those guys. Maybe I am out of the loop.
With that being said, I do think that these comments will hurt their case. In fact, I predict the county will probably be sued soon after by these same kids.
Posted by JohnS on February 21, 2008 at 12:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you watch the show COPS the offier ask "Can I search your vehicle" If you say no then the officer may call for back up and maybe get a warrent if necessary.
I don't see in this case anything was done wrong with searching the car.
Posted by 2001to5930 on February 21, 2008 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MOUTH...I agree with you 100%. The numbers don't lie.
BTW, local law enforcement ARE also trained to profile terrorists - not just the Feds
Posted by da9 on February 21, 2008 at 1:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So what, they made jokes?! I don't think he was being racist on account that-they made the rude comments, but those comments also included a notion that they believed the men could have been near the base. The non-production of the vehicle's registration and suspects' suspicious behaviors gave tons of probable cause to search the vehicle. If they exclude the evidence from the search for these reasons, there should be a lot of drug dealers going free soon. As I commented yesterday, they wouldn't have fussed if it had been marijuana in the trunk. As for the Islamic-American relations guy-he's a joke in himself. Before the dispatch tapes and logs were released, he was already saying the search was wrong-so I didn't believe him from day 1. The IED materials in the trunk were illegal, had it been drugs-they would have been arrested and the evidence would not have been questioned as to the stop. They'll just get out and blow stuff up like drug dealers deal again when they get out. Do not supress this evidence.
Posted by Clemson1979 on February 21, 2008 at 1:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Blah said..
Thou shalt not Judge!
"I am all for finding the terrorist and killing them. but not every muslim is a terrorist."
Yes...not all muslim are terrorist, BUT all terrorist are muslims. We are at war dummies.
Posted by patsy on February 21, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I for one hope the lawyers and "do-gooders" don't let the inappropriate and ignorance of the Hanahan cops ruin this. I think these two should have been detained. Too many of our young men have fought and died for our freedoms and for the freedom of just about every country in our world! Freedom is not free. You have to pay a high price for it. And, I cannot see a "mis-statement" throwing out a conviction. I am sick of these terrorists coming here and enjoying our freedoms and privileges!
Posted by theronce on February 21, 2008 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
urgatorbait, I see that you have no problem profiling and disparaging us local yokel citizens, but you go to great lengths to apologize for a couple of non-citizens who smell somewhat like terrorists. We local yokels rarely do everything right, but we do often give great effort to do the right thing. We do not usually make our own explosives in a state where the store bought is everywhere or show others how to blow up infidels who include my family and friends. Why do you hate your country so much.
Posted by CedarPosts on February 21, 2008 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Number of Service Men and Women in killed or wounded in Iraq.
Year Dead Wounded
2003 486 2,416
2004 849 8,002
2005 846 5,947
2006 822 6,400
2007 901 6,084
2008 64 231
Total 3968 29080
And so these two come to South Carolina and think it's funny to play with bombs and upload extremist propaganda from their computer.
Well, how funny is 29,000 American Service Personal Killed or Wounded while on a thankless mission to give the Iraqi people some self respect, and to give pukes like these two the ability to come to the USA and go to college.
I don't think it's funny and their happy face photos make me want to throw up!
Posted by coolfreaknbeans on February 21, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Imagine this headline..."Women and Children Killed in Car Bomb Explosion at Naval Base"And an article that would follow with....Two muslim men were pulled over for speeding an hour before the attack.Police state the men were holding Qurans on their laps,had no proper registration,nervously closed a laptop when they approached the vehicle,had what appeared to be homemade "fireworks" in their trunk and couldn't explain what exactly they were doing in the area(which happens to be at least at one time a #2 target in the US)So the police decided to give them a warning for speeding,told them to have a nice day and let them go.The officers stated they didnt want to offend the muslim men or be politically incorrect.IMAGINE if thats how it played out??People would be freaking OUTRAGED!They'd be calling the cops incompetent,lazy dumba$$es.How would you feel if your family was killed and cops had seen all that these officers saw and LET THEM GO???Political correctness is a bunch of CRAP!I'm sick of it!If a few people get offended in the name of keeping me and my family safe-who cares?
Posted by mosinfan on February 21, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey tbo, do you mind telling me where I said anything about "millions"??????????????????????
Figure out who your answering on this thread before typing slick!
Posted by mosinfan on February 21, 2008 at 2:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
tbo, did Mouth_of_the_South give you enough citations? Do you want me to type out more? Ok, I wagged at the 99% but its pretty darn close to being scientific.
Point is (not the one on your head), that not all muslims are terrorists but to date...almost all terrorists are muslims. Get a clue dude!
Posted by tbo on February 21, 2008 at 2:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
that was direct at jammer, mosin, who said:
"comparing a few dozen white guys over the years that were out of their minds with a gigantic movement like Alqueda and the likes who number in the millions has no merit"
his post was right beside yours, try to keep up.
Posted by mosinfan on February 21, 2008 at 2:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
coolfreaknbeans, ...hammer meets nailhead, well said.
I imagine if your scenario had played out we wouldnt be hearing all the bleeding heart crapola from tbo and the rest today. I submit they would be rather silent on the tipic...
Posted by GG on February 21, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
PC has gotten OUT OF HAND!
Posted by MinoritySouth on February 21, 2008 at 2:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I tried to be as open-minded as I could about this but these guys were up to no good. The officers screwed up by not getting a definitive yes to search the vehicle however since the travel story made no sense at all, I think the search should stand as legal. Again, the officers would make great writers for a comedy skit but they also may have twarted something horrible. I think the court system should drag this process out as long as possible and keep these guys off the streets.
If all the evidence stands and they are found guilty, what would be the likely punishment?
Posted by charleston_grown on February 21, 2008 at 2:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
fire those racist cops. make an example out of them. Racism of any form should not be tolerated. those cops need to be out of a job
Posted by navywrslr on February 21, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I can not believe that these two animals(no,thats an insult to animals),are now trying to turn this case against the police. Are we all insane?,have we forgotten that terrible day in 2001 and now play games with people who are out to KILL us? I dont care how they were caught,they had explosives in the trunk,they were going to NC by taking a short cut through Goose Creek,will some one show me that short cut? I think that they are so lucky to be breathing,I for one would love to take that smile off that one non human life forms face.
Posted by ChrisPia on February 21, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The car was speeding----Car Stop
Islamic Men with Qurans in their laps near the naval weapons station---Raises the Level of suspicion
Vague answers to what they are doing in the area- raises level of suspicion
Laptop in vehicle also raises a little suspicioun.
The security alert of this nation after 911 also raises suspicious.
The officers asked for Permission to search the vehicle.The Subject said "if You Must"***THIS IS IMPLIED CONSENT BECAUSE HE DID NOT SAY NO WHEN HE COULD HAVE.
The search revealed pipes and gunpowder etc...Which definately raises suspicion.
These Officers are probably nottrained in Bomb making materials as to what constitutes fireworks.....They Made the arrest and Let the experts take over.
I agree they are innocent until proven guilty. I just have one question for All Muslims as well as these individuals...Why in these times of Heightened security would you be driving around in a sensitive area with this stuff in your trunk and plans todetonate by remote control on a laptop? I could only come up with 1 answer....In My opinion they were upto no good....Thank you Officers for Protecting Us.
Posted by Ladyluck on February 21, 2008 at 3:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The part I can't understand is the people on this blog that are defending these two terrorists. Firecrackers my foot. I think the officers involved were wrong in the remarks they made on camera, however their instinks may saved a lot of innocent lives that night in Goose Creek.
Posted by LifetimeLearner on February 21, 2008 at 3:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry to say it, but if you were a cop and pulled over the same type of person day in and day out, then you may also have some prejudices. I am not saying I am prejudiced but repetitive actions like that tend to make to jump to conclusions. Same reason that we may assume people of Middle Eastern origin may be dangerous. It is too bad that we think that, but it is the times. Many good people died at the hands of those people, and that repetitive action breeds prejudice.
Posted by forget on February 21, 2008 at 3:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
charleston grown- Are you crazy? These guys made a legal traffic stop that possibly prevented something horrific from happening. Even if they pulled them over because they might have looked suspicious, just because they were around the weapons station is a good enough reason. If you have forgotten, we are at war. We have to be preemptive. Us, as citizens of the United States, should be ready to subject ourselves a search anywhere near a military installation or other possible targets of terrorism. If for no other reason than to protect the lives of our loved ones. Why does it really matter what they said to each other? It should not.
Posted by RTC on February 21, 2008 at 4:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you really want to get sick go to the Tampa Tribune website and look at their archives.
Jihadist support companies abound in the Tampa Bay area.
The universities are crawling with Muslims, and they have their own little clubs, where they sit around and smoke their hookahs despite Florida having a state wide smoking ban. While Floridians pay fines for public smoking, the Muslims are apparently immune to prosecution.
Whose country is this anyway?
Posted by CedarPosts on February 21, 2008 at 4:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So here's the good news....
Considering that "A Berkeley County deputy sheriff was making jokes about the two Egyptians just moments before finding explosive materials in the trunk of their car" ...
(at which point I would have sh$t my pants pulled my weapon and made a bigger mess in the front seat of their car)
These two ding dongs are lucky to be alive!
Thankfully they have been locked up all this time and even if the case is tossed they will be shipped back to the flipping sand box so Andy and Barney did us a favor.
I'm pretty sure the last thing they expected was explosives. I remember being passed by the Charleston Bomb Squad Truck on I-26 that day and I chuckled to myself thinking the same thing a bomb in Charleston???
We need to be more careful and maybe view everyone acting just a little odd as a potential terrorist.
Posted by charleston_grown on February 21, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
many good people have died by american's actions as well. you should not forget this. there are many americans that are fanatical and extremist in their views, and guess what many of them are christians. they have bombed abortion clinics, killed innocent people, etc. also what about the oklahoma city bombings, eric rudolph, etc? come on people.... yes these are the times, but we are also educated and smart. Racism should not be tolerated, and neither should terrorism. The actions of these officers is inexcusable regardless of the outcome. They should and will lose their jobs! We will never be able to get rid of terrorism if this racist attitude continues. Racism will spawn more terrorists, and vice versa. Stop the Cycle and save our world for future generations. Everybody is different, get used to it.
Posted by dustym59 on February 21, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ya'll need jobs.
Posted by CedarPosts on February 21, 2008 at 4:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Read the entire transcript.
They are cops this is what cops do, people act funny cops get suspicious. These deputies didn't do anything wrong Meghaed couldn't answer some basic questions, yeah they could have waited for a search warrant... but as far as professional yeah they could clean up their languge, but they were on to something and this is what we paid them for.
If your Muslim you better have your act together, even if your wearing a Atlanta Braves hat and whistling Dixie if you can't come up with a few simple answers you're going to be asked to step out of the car. Get used to it!
Posted by forget on February 21, 2008 at 4:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sure there are fanatics in any race. Be diligent in paying attention to them, too. If we all pay attention to our surroundings and what's going on in it, they will lose their chance to do something. Most of them have been cowards. They bomb these places and run. Same as the muslim terrorists. They rely on everyone trying to be PC. Every citizen, and all the others that are trying to be citizens, should welcome the interest in our safety. Times are different.
Posted by The_Mouth_of_the_South on February 21, 2008 at 4:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
We need to open concentration camps in the Arizona or New Mexican desert and incarcerate ALL Muslims who won't leave the country voluntarily. We are at war with Muslim terrorists, and when you are at war, some civil liberties have to be given up. Lincoln revoked certain civil liberties during the civil war, and Roosevelt put Japanese into camps during WW2. We need to protect ourselves from Muslims. Any Muslim who truly believes the Koran is a threat to all real Americans.
Posted by mosinfan on February 21, 2008 at 4:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
charleston_grown, if your going to list all that...why not add the 1.5 Million little children ripped apart with forceps or burnt alive with a saline solution in their mothers wombs every year... all in the name of "Choice" because it makes people "feel" better about it.
Oh, that probably wouldnt fit in your list would it?
Posted by The_Mouth_of_the_South on February 21, 2008 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
charleston_grown:
You had one supposed Christan terrorist (and I say supposed because I don't believe he is a true Christian) as opposed to thousands and tens of thousands of Muslim terrorists who's only goal is to do as the Koran says and kill ALL non-muslims. I'd say by definition that makes all good Muslims terrorists.
Qur'an 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends."
Qur'an 8:12 "I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes."
Qur'an 8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them."
Posted by reality_woman on February 21, 2008 at 4:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
WHO THE HECK CARES?? I for one do not. They were not just transporting fireworks. Give me a break.
Posted by yeahright on February 21, 2008 at 4:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, for God's sake don't make any duck jokes about it.
Posted by charleston_grown on February 21, 2008 at 4:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
the Koran clearly prohibits acts of aggression and violence unless it is in self defense. the verses you are quoting are out of context, taking verses out of context is dangerous and you are fighting a losing argument.
mosinfan, i never said anything about the legality of abortion. if you feel bombing abortioin clinics is a good thing, regardless of the moral implications of abortioin, you are no better than the terrorist which you condemn.
just a FEW quotes from the bible
"Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says." (1 Corinthians 14:34)
"Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her as a covering." (1 Corinthians 11:13-15)
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." (Mark 9:43)
Posted by Jane on February 21, 2008 at 4:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I see nothing racist here. Islamic terrorist is not a race. In fact, most Arabs are condidered to be of the white race. These boys look like they are of the white race to me.
We are at war here folks...with people who read the Koran and worship death. Sorry, but we have to view muslims with suspicion. Sorry! Notice the Islamic leader from Tampa did not condemn the boys video on how to murder us! He is condemning us for catching the boys. Oh, and when he says things would have been different if the cops hadn't arrested these boys...he is right. There would be alot of dead Americans. These two were recorded when they were arrested and do you know what they were saying in Arabic? They were talking about "getting their stories straight"! We better use common sense when it comes to this Islamic threat. I said it before and I'll say it again..stop allowing them to come here. They don't like us and they don't respect western culture and they sure don't respect women!
Posted by Jane on February 21, 2008 at 4:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Difference Charleston grown...we don't take those comments literally these days...Mslims do.
Posted by The_Mouth_of_the_South on February 21, 2008 at 5:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
charleston_grown:
1 Corinthians 11 is a prohibition of women preachers, not an absolute prohibition against a woman speaking. The Greek word which is translated "speak" in this portion of scripture literally means to preach, and yes, women are prohibited from preaching. Women ARE commanded to teach younger women.
Yes, men are supposed to have short hair and women are supposed to have hair longer than mens. God has made men and women distinctly different. If you haven't figured that out by now. . .
In the Mark passage, Jesus was exagerating to make a point.
Nice try, but you are way off base, and I stand by my earlier posts. . .
Posted by charleston_grown on February 21, 2008 at 5:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
jane, unfortunately there are many christians who do take those comments literally. many live in the south east of the USA. fortunately though, there are many Muslims that don't take the Koran literally either.
Posted by walleyedwoman1215 on February 21, 2008 at 5:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
coolfreaknbeans, you make some valid points. Thank you!
Posted by The_Mouth_of_the_South on February 21, 2008 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you can't determine which Muslims are "safe" you must treat each one like you treat an unfamiliar firearm. You assume it's loaded and treat it accordingly.
Posted by halfsheli on February 21, 2008 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It seems, charleston_grown, that our little big mouth of the south does not see your point at all. Funny how when Bible verses are quoted out of context people get their panties all up in a bunch, then turn around and do the same to another, equally important and influential religious text.
I wonder how the view from mouth's glass house is...
Posted by halfsheli on February 21, 2008 at 5:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I hear ya, mouth. I feel the same way about white men in pick-up trucks!
Posted by The_Mouth_of_the_South on February 21, 2008 at 5:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It's funny that when the terrorist sympathizers loose the argument (and they always do) they start down unrelated rabbit trails.
The point is, anybody who is a Muslim should be suspect. We need to protect ourselves, and if that involves a little discomfort for some terrorist wannabe's, so be it.
Posted by The_Mouth_of_the_South on February 21, 2008 at 5:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
halfsheli:
Don't forget about the gun rack in the back window. A good truck isn't complete without a gun rack!!!
;-)
Posted by mosinfan on February 21, 2008 at 5:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
charleston_grown,
You accuse me of condoning the bombing of abortion clinics??
You do that because I described to you the facts and reality of the procedures of abortion??
Now who is taking the judgemental LEAP!!!!
I simply thought if you are going to be fair and "open minded" you ought to include that portion of the population.
I thought you liberals were all for open, honest debate and information? Or is that only when it fits your agenda?
Posted by halfsheli on February 21, 2008 at 5:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm agreeing with you. ANYONE who sports a mullet should be suspect...
I mean anyone who owns a confederate battle flag should be suspect...
I mean anyone who is a christian (especially protestants) should be suspect...
I mean anyone who voted for Bush should be suspect...
See what I'm doing here, mouth. A bit of a satirical rabbit trail... MY point is that so many fall for blanket characterizations of people, and then tout that in defense of treating them poorly. Do I disagree with their arrest? No. Do I believe that the officers need to be fired? No. I do think they should be more careful. Over simplified fear, i.e., don't trust muslims or southern white men in pick up trucks are racist red-necks, is dangerous.
Except for the last one about Bush. I really believe that one!
Posted by halfsheli on February 21, 2008 at 5:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
How could I forget the gun rack? And the picture of Calvin peeing on the Ford / Chevy logo? Thanks mouth!! ;)
Posted by The_Mouth_of_the_South on February 21, 2008 at 5:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Qur'an 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends."
Qur'an 8:12 "I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes."
Qur'an 8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them."
Posted by halfsheli on February 21, 2008 at 5:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mosinfan: Silly question. Only when it supports our agenda! Of course, that's the one shred of common ground we liberals share with you conservatives!
Posted by halfsheli on February 21, 2008 at 5:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mouth, I could swear you're just doing that to get under my skin!!!!!
Posted by jammer on February 21, 2008 at 5:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
charleston_grown there's a big difference between a passage that refers to not speaking in the bible and one that refers to killing and mutilating people in the koran merely for their choice of belief
you must be one of the muslims we need to watch...
Posted by halfsheli on February 21, 2008 at 6:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey jammer, What about the verse about chopping off hands and stuff? That one was pretty violent...
I love that, by the way. cahrleston_grown disagrees with you, so he/she must be the enemy... Certainly no white male (you are a white man, aren't you???????) could have a different opinion? Where's the justice in that. Therefore charleston_grown MUST be muslim.
Oh, hey, I think you're on to something there. What a way to sniff out the bad guys? Pur genious...
Posted by RTC on February 21, 2008 at 6:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
People, just Google the Muslim religion and you can read for hours. There are Muslim women here in the states that are fighting against the atrocities that are committed against them. They have to do this in OUR country, because they would be put to death in their own countries.
Did anyone notice that when Megahed's father was interviewed here his mother had no comment? Of course she didn't, as Muslim women are chattel, no better than dogs. They are brainwashed from birth to accept their station in life.
It does not matter whether you are a liberal or a conservative. No one should condone the teachings of this religion.
Read "Inside the Kingdom" by Carmen Bin Laden, the ex sister-in-law of Osama. It is fascinating reading.
Posted by Carolina_Politics on February 21, 2008 at 6:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Are you kidding me? These guys had explosives in their car for Christ’s sake! I don’t care what the cops called them. And their argument that the cops did not have probably cause is bull. Two Middle Eastern college age men driving a car with Korans on their laps and no vehicle registration in South Carolina? Oh no, there’s no red flag there. I’m sure they were just here for the barbeque.
So yeah, the cops may have profiled. Good. They should be profiling and they were right to do so with these guys. Sure, maybe they deserve a slight reprimand for their conduct, but they may have saved a lot of lives with this arrest.
It really is true when they say “Only in America….”
http://www.carolinapoliticsonline.com
Posted by mosinfan on February 21, 2008 at 6:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
nice try halfsheli, no common ground there either.
Most liberal argument is long on emotion and personal attack and very short on fact, logic, and sound reasoning.
Posted by charleston_grown on February 21, 2008 at 6:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
jammer, there are plenty of verses in the bible that talk about violence, killing, and mutilation. i just choose not to post those, because i figured such vehement defenders of the christian faith would know a little about the bible and its contents.
mosinfan, i never accused you. i was just making it a point that hatred has no color, no religion, or race. it only exists in people's heads, weaher they are christian, muslim, black, white, middle eastern, etc.....
Prejudice leads to hate! hate creates more hate, it is a vicious cycle and we need to be mature enough to stop it.
mouth, words can't describe your ignorance. i hope someday you will realize the world is bigger than you.
and yes,for those of you who care, i am a white christian male, that happens to have a world view. imagine that!!! someone who actually lives by Christian Principles!
Posted by halfsheli on February 21, 2008 at 6:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
o.k., i'm ready for that sound reasoning...
anytime now....
the common ground, by the way, was on the fact that we all tend to make our arguments one-sided. who here does not have an agenda. mine is one of open-mindedness and acceptance. I do not blindly trust ANYONE (muslim, christian, hindu...), but I do not believe that one segment of the world's population should be singled out. My distrust is UNIVERSAL!!!!! My agenda is to make the point that it's not fair to say "ALL muslims" or "ALL men". Would you be angry if I put you in the same category with extremist christians. The one's who bomb abortion clinics to make a misguided point about murder? I know you're way off base if you think I'm like any other flaming liberal out there. I'm much more than that.
Posted by mosinfan on February 21, 2008 at 6:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
halfsheli,
I dont think I have seen anyone here that has said that all muslims are terrorists. What WAS pointed out is that almost all terrorists are muslim.
As politically incorrect and abhorant to you that might sound, that fact makes it incumbent upon us to look harder at ("profile") those individuals. It does not mean that we think they are all terrorists. It just makes more sense if you are looking at the masses to focus on that segment rather than on the proverbial little old lady in the airport.
Logic would dictate that if most of the terrorism is coming from one segment (see earlier post at about 12:00 P.M. by The_Mouth_of_the_South with the evidence ) then you better be looking at those individuals. To do otherwise would be to our own peril.
Posted by halfsheli on February 21, 2008 at 7:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"I'd say by definition that makes all good Muslims terrorists." (by mouth of the south)
"all terrorist are muslims" (clemson 1979)
And all I'm saying is that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Posted by halfsheli on February 21, 2008 at 7:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It's been fun, folks! Always enjoyable to debate. And remember ... "Childrens do learn"!
Posted by The_Mouth_of_the_South on February 21, 2008 at 8:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I do have a world view. Nobody in this world is working in our best interest (that would be American interest). The Europeans who we saved from Nazi aggression have stabbed us in the back (with the exception of the Brittish). Almost every country in the Middle East are our enemies (with the exception of Israel) and most of Asia (with the exception of Japan). The Mexicans and other South and Central American countries are sending armies across the borders. I don't think we need friends like these, do we??? I don't give a flip if we offend some clown in the middle east or anywhere else for that matter. We should ONLY do things that are in our own best interest (whatever the cost). Unfortunatly, the liberals and even some conservatives in our political system are traitors to our country and have violated their oaths of office by placating all these foreigners.
Posted by The_Mouth_of_the_South on February 21, 2008 at 8:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Maybe we need to deal with these terrorists like General Pershing dealt with them in the Philippines.
Just before World War I, there were a number of terrorist attacks on the United States forces in the Philippines by Muslim extremists. So General Pershing captured 50 terrorists, and had them tied to posts for execution. He then had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the, now horrified, terrorists.
Muslims detest pork, because they believe pigs are filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse to eat it, while others won't even touch pigs at all, nor any of their by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood, etc., is to be instantly barred from Paradise (and those virgins), and doomed to hell.
The soldiers then soaked their bullets in the pigs' blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad. The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped in the terrorist's bodies, and covered them in pig blood, entrails, etc. They let the 50th man go.
And for the next 42 years, there was not a single Muslim extremist attack anywhere in the world.
Extreme measures work well against extremists.
Posted by deadbambi on February 22, 2008 at 12:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
To charleston_grown and halfsheli (if either of you two are still watching this post),
I have to sincerely ask - have either of you ever read the Koran? To assume that the Koran is benign and that anyone who criticizes Islam or the Koran is just a right-wing, Christian bigot is not the intellectual approach I'd expect from educated and civilized humanists. The intellectual approach would be to examine the comments of the critics of Islam and the Koran, then read the Koran, and base your responses on actual knowledge.
The Koran makes the Old Testament look like Cat in the Hat. The Koran also doesn't hold the basics of decency as laid out in the 10 commandments or the "golden rule" of doing unto others... Please read it before you defend it. It stands for religious intolerance first and foremost, the edict to spread and rule the world, and violence toward and subjugation of women, and they have a terrible history of protecting animals. This should bother you.
Since Islam reared his head, it has been a violent ideology. Why do you think the Middle East and South Asia are mostly Muslim? Please reference the USC (California) Muslim Student Association's website for their chronology of Islam and see for yourself.
Islam almost conquered Europe in 1683, on September 11, 1683 to be exact. There is an agenda that is clearly spelled out in the Koran and hadiths.
Have you ever seen a Muslim man riding his donkey in the desert, while his wife walked behind the donkey? I have. We're talking 6th century belief system. Defending Islam is like defending Nazism, but just because one calls itself a religion, it gets a free pass.
If you want to compare Islam to Christianity, then ask yourself if you've ever seen a Muslim Soup Kitchen, or seen groups of Muslims cleaning up the beach, or a Muslim homeless shelter?